THE ROBERT W. WHITAKER ARCHIVE

I personally get tired of the shallow churches I see. While I've never seen anyone say that Christianity is meaningless if we don't save Israel (there are some who will tell you Israel is meaningless, just ask Gary North), I have seen a misinterpretation of the promise to Abraham about blessing or cursing him. God will take care of israel at the appropriate time. The church needs to get off its zionist kick and take care of the business Christ set for it, reaching the lost. If it kept its eyes on that mission then the church would not be the sick puppy it is, and the country would not be sick either.

The pic on the main page looks better than I remember you back in '99. You been staying away from women and getting some rest? (I couldn't resist any longer :-))

Unfortunately I don't need to stay away from women. They do that for me.

I hope it's just for my own good, but I am plagued by doubts.

The problem with the church is very simple:

It doesn't believe.

So it tries to be "relevant" to the "real world."

It is very embarrasing to most professed Christians for people to say, "You're

just about all that salvation stuff."

That includes the evagelicals. They want to believe that all the answers are

in the Bible, by which they mean all the answers to the "real" stuff, evolution,

moral leadership, all the stuff that "matters."

I disagree that the country would not be sick if the churches did their job.

If that is your reason to be Christian, I think you are dangerously mistaken.

Read what CS Lewis Lewis' senior demon Screwtape said about how easily souls

could be damned by twisting the Faith into "Christianity AND..." Get humans

concentrating on Christianity AND saving America, Christianity AND evolution,

Christianity AND Moral Leadership.

Get them OFF of saving souls, including their own.

You can become a Christian Scientist or Amish or any number of groups who claim

the church's mission is of THIS world.

That's certainly what the Old Testament says. The Law and Prophets were for

this world. God was out to save Israel. God was about Israel.

I think that Christ changed EVERYTHING.

I'm a Catholic. Just about every Sunday, my priest talks about

applying something in the Bible, usually a part of a

chapter or a whole chapter, to one's own life in order to

be a good Catholic. The parish as a whole is very loyal

to the Pope, but we do have a small number who get deeply

into "social gospel" aside from the usual baskets for folks

to donate baby & maternal clothing and supplies to a couple

of local organizations.

I could go to church closer to home. I belong to a parish

about 20 miles from home because the closer ones are more

into social gospel and bad theology. I actually pay attention

to the words in hymns: one of the reasons I left these two

closer parishes is because their music directors just adore

hymns advocating ending poverty by ending _physical_ hunger,

and ennobling the poor at the expense of the middle

class.

I am poor and I've been poorer. I was even homeless

briefly. Sure, we all need to eat and to have a safe

place to sleep. The best permanent fixes for physical

poverty are good educations and stable marriages.

Spiritual poverty can co-exist with physical poverty.

Spiritual poverty can hurt, can cripple, and can

kill. It's also a lot harder to identify than

anything physical.

No, Bob, that isn't the reason I'm a Christian. I accepted Christ because of the conviction that His claims were true and I had to make a decision to accept or reject the truth.

Christ, indeed, did change everything. His church conquered an empire that tried to supress it. Eventually the church reasserted itself, although it had endure the stupidity of people like Luther and Calvin before it got a Wesley, all the while fighting the Roman Catholic heirarchy who would have liked nothing better than to burn the entire lot. Of course, Calvinists were tying Anabaptists into sacks and throwing them into lakes and rivers. Ironically, Anabaptists are now the dominant strain of western christianity.

Going back, in actuality you do agree with me. Your point, "The problem with the church is very simple: It doesn't believe. So it tries to be 'relevant' to the 'real world.'" makes my point quite succinctly. Very nice summation of my position as well. Calvinists lost there way not long after reaching these shores (if they ever were on the right path is debatable). After chasing all the witches and demons out of Plymouth colony they had to find something to do, so they turned away from the gospel and found abolitionism, racism, sexism, et. al. and the liberal "church" to this day is on the same path. I think it's the path to hell in more ways than one.

Women being the sensitive caring things they are, probably take one look at you and realize that you need rest, relaxation and a relatively stress free environment. While they won't admit it, women and stress go together and they have a visceral understanding of this. Having been married before you know just how true this is, even if you may have forgotten it. Maybe on one of your trips to Russia you can find a cute thing to bring back home. If what I've seen on some of the websites they do have a few real honeys worth placing on a pedestal back here.