#13 Richard L. Hardison | 2005-06-05 21:54
Bob, the proper response is "that's Greek to me!" That is actually Koine transliterated for the latin alphabet. i would tell you it was German, but you know I was lying to you, being fluent and all.
Your statement, "Are we talking about the same Christ who, dying on the Cross, said, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."
So when the Magi face Christ on Judgement Day, he will say, "Go to Hell, you don't know the Old Testament. By the way, thanks for the presents."
I am sure John Calvin found that in Christ's nature, but I am astonished you could."
is called "going beyond the data." Bad thing is that it isn't even an extrapolation from the data, but a jump to a conclusion.
All I'm saying is the New Testament is silent on the spiritual state of the Magi. The Magi were astrologers, practitioners of a form of divination condemned by God in both Old and New Testaments. Beyond them coming to bring gifts and to worship him and to return home a different way than they came, we know nothing. You are making an asumption about the Magi, I haven't. I don't condemn them one way or the other. All I have to say is "I don't know." I don't know if Bobby Lee was actually a Christian, or just one culturally. I hope I will see him in God's Kingdom, but I don't know if I will. That's all it boils down to Bob.
You and I disagree on the Old Testament. Most of it consists of messages to Israel through prophets the nation's leadership did not want to hear. Many of those men were killed because of those messages. God reveals one side of his nature, His Holiness which informs His justice. Many times it was summary in nature and instantly applied. The New Testament shows the fulfillment of the old when Christ reveals God's love and mercy - the way of escape from God's justice. I have no trouble with the term "wordist" as I've met a few of them. The implication that the OT is of little to no worth because it says things you may not like to hear, or is misinterpreted, is just a bit on the silly side. Christ said He came to fulfill the law, not abolish it. Paul said that grace does not abolish the law, but establishes it. In fact, the act of giving the law was an act of God's grace. Before you know where you fail, you have to be given a standard by which we can be measured. That is the function of the law.
Israel failed repeatedly to measure up, which is why I have trouble with the Hal Lindseys of the world who seem to think we should excuse all that Israel does because by so doing we bless Abraham, and will be blessed by God for doing so. That's poppycock. Condoning sin is never blessed by God, and even after the church is removed Israel will have two thirds of its population killed because they simply cannot, even at this date, after the fulfillment of every prophecy about judgement of the nation that Moses gave them, accept God's provision for them. While all sinners have a part in Christ's death, it was the jewish leadership that cried for his unjust execution and said that his blood should be on their heads and that of their children.
Something you should recall, from Acts 17:10-11 "The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Beroea. When they arrived, they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so." Hardly something one would say if the OT were not scripture or not "religion" as the OT was all the scripture the church possessed at the time. The OT has its place.